Mikhail Zvyagin hockey. Artist Mikhail Zvyagin: “I have been drawing all my life, even during the Leningrad blockade

Mikhail Nikolaevich Zvyagin(born November 22) - Russian hockey player and coach, in this moment head coach of the Zauralye hockey club.

Pupil of the Tyumen hockey school.

During his playing career, he played for Rubin (Tyumen), Metallurg (Serov), Kedr (Novouralsk). As part of the Serov Metallurgist, he played 338 games in which he scored 112 points (39 + 73).

After the end of his career, from 2009 to 2013 he worked as an assistant coach at Beybarys (Atyrau), with whom he became vice-champion (2009/10) and three times champion of Kazakhstan (2010/11, 2011/12, 2012/13). Then, from 2013 to 2015, he was an assistant at Irtysh (Pavlodar), with whom he became the champion of Kazakhstan (2013/14) and the owner of the Kazakhstan Cup (2014).

On April 20, 2016, before a friendly game with Rubin from Tyumen, it was announced that he would lead Zauralie (Kurgan) for the upcoming season. This will be his first job as a head coach.

Mikhail Nikolayevich Zvyagin has a higher education (Tyumen State University, Faculty of Physical Education and Sports). In addition, he graduated from the Higher School of Coaches at the NSU of Physical Culture, Sports and Health. P.F. Lesgaft in St. Petersburg. He has a state coaching license for the right to work as a head coach with highly qualified hockey players in teams of masters and national teams.

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An excerpt characterizing Zvyagin, Mikhail Nikolaevich

A. Ermolin- Good afternoon to everyone who listens to us, the Military Council program is on the air, we continue our work. Anatoli Yermolin, the host of the studio, our guest today is Mikhail Ivanovich Zvyagin, chief navigator of the Russian Air Force, major general. The topic of our today's conversation is the role and importance of the navigation service in solving the problems facing the modern Russian Air Force. Good afternoon, Mikhail Ivanovich.

M. Zvyagin- Hello.

A. Ermolin- Mikhail Ivanovich, today we have a small change in the format, quite a small one because there is a pleasant announcement, I want to report to all our radio listeners ... Report exactly, right? That yesterday the Ministry of Defense summed up the results of the Media Ass competition among the media covering the armed forces. Well, I am pleased to report to our radio listeners that in the nomination for the best radio program, which we deal with the consecration of the armed forces, the program "Military Council" is named. This is especially nice, because we have been on the air for 8 years, this is the first award of our program. We have an unusual program, we are talking about professional things, we are not talking formally. So today we are talking about your service, navigational service. It's no secret that just recently on March 24 you celebrated an almost round date - 99 years since the creation of the navigation service. Therefore, my first question is this: tell us about the history of the development of the navigation service, how and where it began.

M. Zvyagin- Thank you very much for the question. Well, let me remind you that the navigational service was born almost simultaneously with military aviation, and it was the first experience of using aviation in the First World War, when it was necessary to conduct aerial reconnaissance, when it was necessary to use weapons, that raised the issue of navigation and the transfer of this term to air Wednesday. It was then, in fact, by the decision or order of the Chief of Staff of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, Adjutant General Alekseev, by his order, the first central air navigation station was created, which combined many services involved in the air environment, and from this, in fact, the moment is considered that the navigation service began to function. Well, of course, the first experience of the work of the so-called pilot-observers, as they used to be called, was in demand in terms of direct observation of the ground, there were no instruments on aircraft at that time, the pilot-observer assessed the weather report, the weather, indicated the direction of the pilot with his hand, there was no connection in the cockpit either. This is how navigational science began to develop in such a primitive way. At the end of the war, some group actions already appeared, when the use of more serious methods of navigation was required. But we believe that the well-known navigator, the navigator, is Boris Vasilyevich Sterligov, who made the main contribution to the development of navigation. This mainly happened in the 30s before the war, when the need arose for ultra-long flights - these are flights, as you know, on Far East, and across the North Pole to America. Strictly speaking, Boris Vasilyevich was the founder of science, which made it possible to perform blind flights. That is, they appeared ... He developed a technique for performing blind flights, using radio compasses, using a course, measuring a course, a whole line of special devices and equipment appeared. And the crowning achievement of Boris Vasilyevich Sterligov was the founding of three pilot-observer schools. This is in Krasnodar, in Chelyabinsk. And, as a matter of fact, since 1933, with the appointment of Boris Vasilyevich as the flag-navigator of the air fleet, this position used to be called that. And the entire hierarchical structure of the navigation service was introduced additionally. We also consider this day February 28 - one of the holidays of the navigational service. Nevertheless, we have been conducting our report since the 16th year.

A. Ermolin- How do you stress? Navigator or navigator? Naval or aviation?

M. Zvyagin- No, there are definitely only navigators here, we really value this term. In general, military aviation navigators are highly intelligent, trained, and quite literate people. Not prudes who know how and appreciate humor, of course. It has always been believed that this is a certain layer of intelligentsia among the flight crew.

A. Ermolin- Here about point with your hand - you said it well. All the huge number of jokes, including that a real navigator can (inaudible).

M. Zvyagin- Navigators like to joke, including on themselves, yes.

A. Ermolin- And please tell me, at the time when your service was created, you say that there were observer pilots. But when you imagine the first aircraft, which at least in feature films, and they show it in documentaries, right? There is one pilot sitting there. That is, there was a moment when both the pilot and the navigator combined it, or did appear even then, so you say the second pilot-observer. This is for large aircraft, right?

M. Zvyagin- No, of course there were reconnaissance aircraft, where the second crew member was sitting. Of course, there were many single-seat fighters during the First World War. But I want to immediately warn against some such misunderstanding of the navigator's business. After all, even now we have one crew member flying on some planes. This does not mean that there is no navigational case. That is, navigational training, which is inherent in all flight personnel, a flying pilot in a single-seat aircraft, he is certainly very well trained in navigational terms, one of the tasks of the navigational service as well. I would also like to recall one historical fact for some of our radio listeners, who may not know. These are the famous time signals that are now being heard on the air of many radio stations - this was just invented by one of our famous navigators, the chief navigator of the Air Force, Viktor Mikhailovich Lavsky, who at one time was ... for 14 years he headed the air force navigator service Soviet Union. In 1957, in order to synchronize the actions of aviation, so that everything would be at the same time, so that the navigational clock showed correctly, he suggested ... He wrote a letter, was called to the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, and as a single system, or as a method of synchronizing time throughout the country, they these here ... For 5 seconds, 6 signals of the exact time. That naturally the product is also an invention of the navigation service.

A. Ermolin- But during the Great Patriotic War, when there was such a massive application to aviation, were there any events that influenced changes in the quality of your work, the emergence of new technology?

M. Zvyagin- Thank you for the question. Absolutely great Patriotic War contributed a lot to navigational science, to aviation science. It is clear that in the first days of the war, the fleet of aircraft, or military aircraft, was not always new, they were poorly equipped with navigational equipment and instruments. And it is no secret that in the first months of the war, the fleet of aircraft, or military aircraft, was not always new, they were poorly equipped with navigational equipment and instruments. And it's no secret that in the first months of the war, even years, the quality of combat use suffered very seriously. There were many loss of orientation, not combat losses. There were a lot of bombings, the use of weapons against the intended targets. There were a lot of cases of not reaching the object of impact. The leadership at that time of our armed, red army, air fleet took this problem very seriously, and just now I mentioned Boris Vasilyevich Sterligov, who at that time was in charge of the navigation service, whole methods were developed for those designed in this way. Held large complex measures to improve the country's territories, means (inaudible) technical support. I have to give an example only that during the years of the war, by the end of the war, the quality of air navigation has increased immeasurably. Only cases of loss of orientation decreased by 5 times, cases of not reaching the object of impact - by more than 4 times. And more than 1.5-2 times increased the accuracy of bombing. This naturally affected the effectiveness of aviation operations. A lot of very precise instruments, sights appeared. That is, we assess the contribution of those leaders of the navigation service in that period as very important for the development of the navigation service. In general, we highly appreciate the merits, and in general, during the war years, 243 navigators were awarded the title of Hero of the Soviet Union. And Vasily Vasilyevich Sinko was awarded this title twice. This is our legendary navigator.

A. Ermolin- Now there are very interesting documentaries about how our pilots, and I'm sure that the navigators also overtook (inaudible) planes. That's how they were led through territories where there was no infrastructure at all, and accordingly there was no special navigation equipment. This is how such navigational work was organized, is it from the point of view of the kitchen or what with the equipment that was in those days?

M. Zvyagin- Well, this was just the result of a very serious understanding of the role of navigational science in aviation. And the calculation, you are absolutely right, the calculation of the unique route from America to our country, it was also carried out by specialist navigators. A very significant moment, already in the first years of the war, you know, on August 8, long-range bomber aircraft attacked Berlin, this was also a unique flight in those days. It was at night, how do you know, right? It was in complete radio silence, with all the signals and so on that are on the aircraft turned off. And in general, the development of long-distance flights ... Chkalov's flight, pay attention, to fly absolutely in pitch darkness, without any technical means of correction, and fly over the pole, where there is very serious interference with the earth's magnetic field, and so on. At that time, these were just really feats, and in the post-war period already, during the Cold War, when the task of developing the Arctic was set, here similar works- they were continued. The forces of the navigation service prepared many ice airfields, implemented ... Or rather, methods, methods of flying in the Arctic were developed. All this has been very useful to us now that we have again returned to the issue of developing the Arctic regions, and these methods and methods are now being actively adopted for the training of flight personnel, adjusting some parameters of the operation of our navigation systems, everything is very revealing here.

A. Ermolin- And by the way, this symbolic blow in 1941 against Berlin. Indeed, it was an event.

M. Zvyagin“It was a milestone event, of course.

A. Ermolin- For me, this event is very valuable because my godfather Nikolai Drozd participated in the preparations for the provision of this flight (inaudible) of the Orders of Glory. And many cars returned after this departure?

M. Zvyagin- You know, we naturally suffered losses as a result of this flight. But everything is relative, I will not specify the quantity now, I'm afraid to make a mistake. Well, of course, there were losses. The task was completed, this is the most important thing.

A. Ermolin- Here, throwing a bridge from your history to what is happening today. Tell us what… 99 years later, what changes have taken place, what are the main tasks now facing the navigation service, and what is its purpose? Are you fulfilling your mission?

M. Zvyagin- Thank you for the question. Preparing for today's interview, I carefully read on the Internet what residents and citizens think about us about our profession. There are a lot of really warm reviews, respectful reviews about our profession. But it immediately catches your eye, I would like to debunk a few things here: for some reason everyone associates the need for a navigator on board - this is primarily the possibility of failure of navigation equipment. Here I would like to put the question in a different way. Why is a military navigator needed in general in military aviation? Do you need a navigator on board a military aircraft? As we know, many civilian companies refused to have a navigator on board. As a matter of fact, the key phrase here is precisely the military. Because the navigator of military aviation is far away ... The work of a navigator is far from being limited to the issue of navigation. The navigator is the main specialist in combat use. That is, this is the use of weapons, this is reconnaissance, this is electronic warfare, this is landing. That is, here are all the issues of these combat use ... The use of military aviation for its intended purpose, and it is precisely the navigation service that is engaged. And in terms of the reliability of our complexes - I must dissuade our radio listeners. Our complexes are quite reliable, and therefore they are called complexes, which include a lot of different systems, the basis of which is on-board computer. Everything is duplicated many times, and the complex is quite reliable. But this does not mean that, again, the role of the navigator is reduced. Just the preparation of the complex for the flight, let's say this ... Figuratively speaking, the dialogue with the complex during the flight, switching it from one mode to another, this, in fact, is what the navigator is doing. And therefore, the role of a navigator in military aviation is simply uncontested. Here, the more new multifunctional complexes for various purposes arrive, the role of the navigator will constantly increase here. Now, if we take today's work as a navigator, or consider some prospects, then with the arrival, as we know, of enough modern aviation systems, their multifunctionality increases. That is, one aircraft, it is now both a fighter, an attack aircraft, and a corresponding carrier. And the navigator mostly acts as an operator of collective actions. That is, an aircraft or a helicopter as a unit, it can act as an independent unit, and as an element of an automated control system. Therefore, the crew is engaged in assessing the situation, receiving information, selecting information, setting the task of a group of up to 30 participants, let's say a combat flight, right? We will call the group, they receive direct target allocation in flight. Of course, the crew commander, the pilot in this case who is actively piloting, sometimes there is not even an opportunity to intervene in the information exchange. Therefore, the navigator has a very important task: optimizing the effectiveness of collective actions. And in accordance with this, the responsibility for the performance of the flight of collective actions is also growing. This is what determines the development of the navigation service in the future.

A. Ermolin- That is, the navigator is fully responsible for the combat information space, including for (inaudible) targets.

M. Zvyagin- Absolutely right, yes. You are absolutely correct in pointing this out. Because even that information control field display system in the cockpit allows the navigator to do this to a greater extent. Because the commander, as a rule, has information about the flight parameters, the state of the systems, the performance of the systems. And since the number of indicators is limited for perception, the navigator just has the opportunity to deal with sights: optical, (inaudible), tactical situation, to receive once again the targets of indicating the ground in an absolutely automated mode, there is no radio exchange in the usual word. And then immediately set the task for the whole group for a particular goal. The commander will simply approve this decision.

A. Ermolin- Here we often talk in our program, and in the "Military Council", and in the "Arsenal" about combat information control systems. That is, the navigator actually turns out, he is one of the main operators of this system.

M. Zvyagin- Absolutely correct. Here, the role of the navigator is more like an operator, namely, as a unit in automated system management. And there is the same ... The environment is now mostly multi-species. That is, this is the earth, and the air, and the sea, right? Or the oceans. All this is involved in a single (inaudible) one, and each one is, in fact, an element of this automated control system. Therefore, working with the complex is very difficult. Even to transfer it from one mode to another, let's say from the state of some navigational tasks, the state of solving a particular combat mission, then you need to make a certain list of manipulations.

A. Ermolin- And how far, and what does the navigator see when the aircraft leaves to perform combat missions?

M. Zvyagin- Well, again, if we start from what we just talked about, about an automated control system, that is, in fact, there are no restrictions in this case ... Spatial restrictions. You can get information from fairly distant sources. Moreover, situational awareness in this case will be quite wide. That is, I will understand with whom I interact, who is around me, how the task is set for me. Here is another of the tasks related to the activities of the navigation service, here in order to ...

A. Ermolin- Let's stop here. Because time flies at such a speed, we didn’t have time to start our conversation, it’s already time for a short break. I want to remind our listeners that today we are talking about navigational service in the Russian Air Force. Our guest Mikhail Ivanovich Zvyagin, chief navigator of the Russian Air Force. We're going for a short break.

A. Ermolin- We continue the meeting of the "Military Council", our expert today is Mikhail Ivanovich Zvyagin, chief navigator of the Russian Air Force, major general. Mikhail Ivanovich, this is one of the advantages when you work with a large audience, there will always be people who will tell you. Here Nikolai from the Saratov region writes: 6 vehicles out of 9 were lost from the raid on Berlin. Well, probably, this does not reduce the symbolic significance of this raid, this bombing of Berlin in 1941.

M. Zvyagin- (inaudible) to remind about it.

A. Ermolin- Well, in the war, as in the war. I think that the pilots who were part of these crews, I think even three cars, three crews, hardly expected that they would be able to return back. There are such tasks when you fly one way, and officers very often know this. It's probably one of the ingredients. military service. Here we are talking about weapons. Now, if you want to continue your thought, then finish, but I still have questions.

M. Zvyagin- Yes, we continue. Navigation tasks, I still wanted to stop. For all that, we have determined that the main role of a military navigator is, after all, the combat use of aviation for its intended purpose, in fact, the entire line of mainly guided weapons. The navigator prepares its application, and directs it directly, but from navigational tasks it is also necessary to remind our radio listeners that, in addition to, in fact, air navigation, right? That is, driving an aircraft in place and time, there are several more areas: this is the so-called inter-aircraft navigation. This is the collection, construction, maintenance of battle formations, which, in fact, for civil aviation not acceptable, right? Here in the role of another military navigator.

A. Ermolin- Not typical.

M. Zvyagin- Unusual, yes. That if many of you have witnessed let's say the most clear examples- These are military parades where you need to assemble a large number of aircraft into a single formation, fly safely, disband safely, and ensure landing. This is called inter-aircraft navigation. You know that military aviation does not conduct collective actions, it is usually a group. And the second direction is still ... Or rather, even the third one is the guidance of aircraft on ground and air targets. This is a whole range of tasks, which is solved primarily in solving the problems of air defense, and the management of army aviation: that is, helicopters on the battlefield is a very dynamic version of the use of aviation. That is, guidance is underway. These are also specialists with high navigational training providing access to the objects of aviation use.

A. Ermolin- So the navigator is also responsible for the combat algorithms? For the order of battle, for interaction (inaudible).

M. Zvyagin- Yes of course. That's all... The navigator's service is the only service that owns these tools, methodology, calculation methods, and the effectiveness of combat use. That is, everything that is directly related to the decision-making by the commanders, in terms of the effectiveness of the application, here all the algorithms are laid down just in the work of the navigation service.

A. Ermolin- We're talking about modern technologies, automation, including those processes you are talking about. But still, returning to those Internet users that you spoke about at the beginning of the program. And yet, what can a modern pilot, navigator do in a situation when he suddenly finds himself in a situation where even as a result of electronic warfare, all the systems that exist fail. Is the pilot and navigator able to be functionally fit in this case? What can be done in this situation?

M. Zvyagin- Thank you for the question. Here there are a lot of proven methods of air navigation. They are timeless, all crews are certainly trained in this method, navigators, of course, in the first place. I must tell you that the main device on board in general is a stopwatch. That is, knowledge means weather, knowledge of the wind. In general, all my own, as it were professional life the navigator fights the wind, so to speak. That is, knowing the wind, knowing the course, turning on and off the stopwatch in time, there are special methods, gaskets that allow you to accurately drive aircraft. Everything else is not autonomous equipment, we will say so, it is associated with various kinds of corrections of the complexes. Therefore, I assure you that all our pilots are trained to fly aircraft in absolutely critical situations, including in the absence of the operation of some special radio engineering devices.

A. Ermolin- And such reliable assistants to navigators as stars, the sun ... In addition to the wind and the stopwatch, they ...

M. Zvyagin- I must tell you that astronomy is a special area of ​​​​application of navigational abilities. Of course, if it is possible to work with starry sky, then this greatly facilitates the work of the navigator. We mainly have astronomical instruments on long-range strategic aviation aircraft, we have astrocompasses that allow us to navigate, if it is possible to see some luminaries, including the sun.

A. Ermolin- Or maybe the navigator will tell you to go below the clouds and navigate along the terrain?

M. Zvyagin Well, that's the main method. As you can imagine, I started with him. When…

A. Ermolin- When he showed with his hand.

M. Zvyagin- Yes. Navigation methods - they started with this. Keeping is called visual orientation. In addition to the visual, there is also (inaudible) orientation. Well, visual orientation is the basis of all navigation. I would like to mention the rule of its conduct, and safety issues in relation to navigation. Because one of the areas of work of the navigator service is just ensuring flight safety, specifically in the navigator's respect. Behind the dry lines of these purely statutory proposals lie very important aspects. This is a loss of orientation exception. This is the exclusion of the complete exhaustion of fuel, this is the exclusion of fragments used by aviation weapons from falling into the zone of expansion. This is the exclusion of collisions of aircraft with each other, this is the exclusion of collisions with the earth, water surface, an obstacle. That is, a whole range of tasks, which, among other things, solves ... Not only including, she is responsible for this, the navigation service.

A. Ermolin- Are there any specifics, and which one depends on the special weather conditions, let's say, or on the relief of the same area. Well, take the same Afghanistan, I have friends there, both pilots and navigators, who say that when often ... For example, Vladimir Talanov, a very honored pilot of the aviation of the border troops, he said that in Kabul ... Military transport aviation, could go there almost on the peaks. That is, he had already been flying along these routes for 8 years, and he could navigate well without equipment. Do mountains have their own specifics?

M. Zvyagin- Undoubtedly. Not only in the mountains, and over the sea, and over the desert, everywhere has its own specifics. Everywhere there are few landmarks, as you understand, everywhere there are very difficult wind conditions, everywhere there are very difficult navigation conditions. The most important thing, and this is the main feature of all navigators, is simply scrupulous accuracy. That is, navigators never have outfits by eye.

A. Ermolin- Trust the map.

M. Zvyagin“They are painfully precise, they calculate all these security conditions, and demand their strict observance. That is, I mentioned that there is a whole methodology for performing safe flights. Now, if everything is well calculated, and everything is correctly observed, then you can fly anywhere, and however you like. This is what we do, in the mountains as well.

A. Ermolin- Is there any difference in the training of navigators for airplanes and for helicopters. Can, for example, the navigator of the aircraft transfer to the chair of the navigator of the helicopter, and perform their tasks?

M. Zvyagin Well, I would start with something else. Firstly, all types of aviation presented today, right? They all now imply the presence of a navigator. There is no birth in which the navigator would not fly. He flies in fighter jets, flies in helicopters, flies in strategic missile carriers. All lines of operational-tactical vessels, with the exception of single-seat aircraft, which we still have. Of course there are differences, but the basic training is quite general. That is, the basics of navigational training - they are universal for many aircraft. Further, the whole process of mastering these aircraft already begins with the graduation from the university by officers-lieutenants, with their arrival in combat units, there is a direct mastery of this particular type of aircraft.

A. Ermolin- So we came to universities. Where do you prepare shots?

M. Zvyagin- Thank you, a very significant question, especially at this stage. There is one educational institution, it was formed in 1936, this is the famous Chelyabinsk Higher Military Aviation School of Navigators, which in next year performed as you know 80 years. A school with very rich traditions, it still trains very professional officers with high navigational training. There are two faculties in the current school, this is actually the flight department, where navigators of the flight specialty are trained, and the department for the training of combat control officers. This is the part of the work that I mentioned, about guiding aircraft, including from ground control posts. I emphasize once again that a school with very rich traditions, we recently resumed enrollment in this school because, in fact, probably not very competent decisions were made by the former leadership of the Ministry of Defense to close this school. But fortunately it was possible to defend it, now it is fully operational.

A. Ermolin- But 3 years was still a break, right? When none military school didn't work.

M. Zvyagin- Yes, we are now in a certain sense experiencing a shortage of navigators. In this regard, I would like to appeal to our youth, who may be listening to our program. Ask them to reconsider their plans, it is possible to choose the heroic profession of a navigator for themselves. This year we will recruit about 500 people in the school. Of course, the admission procedures, they are painted there through the military enlistment office.

A. Ermolin- Is it in the Chelyabinsk school?

M. Zvyagin- Yes, well, we have the only school, one. I want to draw your attention to this. Even if you have some difficulties with the deadlines for submitting documents, you may have to go through some procedures, including medical ones. Maybe someone expired passing the exam. Do not despair, take tickets and come to Chelyabinsk. You will be very welcome, kindly greeted, we will organize an additional examination there, I mean for the Unified State Examination, and a medical commission, you still have to pass it a second time. There are some doubts, or vice versa, there are some doubts in terms of the objectivity of passing some medical reports. Kindly, come please, we will check everything again, and we will be very happy if you enter. If there are deviations in health, then please, welcome to the non-flying department. At the same time, one must understand that the navigator service is primarily a flight service, therefore the requirements for health are universal, as for the entire flight crew. I can even say that pilots are now flying highly maneuverable ... Or rather, navigators are now flying highly maneuverable aircraft, such as the SU-30SM, where very high demands are placed on health. Therefore, I want to draw the attention of our potential applicants.

A. Ermolin- Well, now you answered in detail the question of Alexei from Moscow, who was just wondering if the Chelyabinsk school was working? Works. And we have a question from Evgeny from Samara: are there any special psychological tests for navigators? And I want to ask him, this question is a little broader. There is an opinion that a navigator and a pilot are two different psychological types. And this includes the practice that is now often used in civil aviation due to the lack of flight personnel. In general, many professional military men do not think correctly, that is, when a navigator is retrained as a pilot. Because it's a different type of person. Because the pilot is first and foremost a leader, right? And the navigator is first of all ... Well, the brain, if I can use this term. What do you think about it?

M. Zvyagin- If you approach this issue, keeping in mind the initial training, then I think that there is practically no difference. That is, the same psychological tests are carried out within the framework of professional selection, but it's hard to break stereotypes. That is, if you mentioned in the context of retraining, I would probably question the possibility of a person who has been flying as a navigator for ten years, then master the profession of a pilot. In general, you very rightly noted, I’ll tell you such a little tale from the point of view of what a pilot in a crew should be like, an ideal crew. This is a brave, brave pilot, and a cunning and cowardly navigator. The crew will be perfect.

A. Ermolin- Good (inaudible) competence.

M. Zvyagin- Yes, that is, cowardice not in the sense of cowardice, but in the sense of caution. That's when all the potential capabilities of the crew are most fully realized.

A. Ermolin- By the way, this is exactly the same principle that is confessed in business. That is, there should always be a person in the team who will besiege and say: you first think, and then let's act. Here you go traditional question: Do you take girls? At least for non-flying areas of training?

M. Zvyagin- Yes, girls are accepted for non-flying profiles. We already have rich experience, this is a school that used to train in the (inaudible) administration, it was the Yeysk school, Krasnodar, then now the faculty, as I already called it, the Chelyabinsk school. Many girls graduated from this non-flying faculty, this year we really do not recruit girls, but this does not mean that we have generally refused the services of, let's say, our fair sex in terms of the use of military specialists.

A. Ermolin What about dispatch services?

M. Zvyagin- This is exactly what it is...

A. Ermolin So, this is one of...

M. Zvyagin- In everyday life, de, it is called the dispatching service. But she is a control room - more applicable to the civil air fleet, and in our country this is called a combat control officer.

A. Ermolin- Now specific questions have already gone, again they ask about girls. Here Sergey asks: if I have a European light-engine license, can I become a combat pilot? Well, Sergey asks, but we are talking about navigators today, not about pilots. But by the way, you invite the guys, if a person really already flies, even in light aircraft, and age allows. Until what age can a person enter your Chelyabinsk school?

M. Zvyagin- In our school we take up to 21 years. Therefore, if everything is fine with you in this regard ... There is individual approaches I don't hide. If there is a great desire, this issue can be discussed. That is, in any case, there should be enough groundwork to make it possible to realize oneself already in the Air Force service.

A. Ermolin- I remembered the movie "Mimino" right away, right? When perseverance, after all, a person achieved what he wanted. Here is a large number ... Well, not a large number, but a significant number of military pilots go to civilian life and become civilian pilots. Well, for example in Western countries it's generally a practice. That is, if you have experience in sorties as a military pilot, then you will be hired with great desire in civilian companies. But on the contrary, it happens that guys, young navigators from civil aviation ask to see you? Or something like this… Or is the Nippel system only in one direction?

M. Zvyagin- No, let me take the conversation to a different plane. We started talking about the training of navigators, right? Let me remind you that we still have civilian universities that train navigators. Well, this is primarily Moscow State University forests and...

A. Ermolin- Forests?

M. Zvyagin- Yes, and the South Russian Technical University in Novocherkassk. A lot of representatives of these two universities throughout history have dedicated their lives later to the military (inaudible). These are universities that have military departments that teach and assign titles to graduates. Of course, they are not, the Minister of Defense, and with the profession of a military navigator, we are actively recruiting into the army, especially for the current periods, so to speak. Students of these universities are also invited to make an application and serve in the Air Force.

A. Ermolin- What about the forest?

M. Zvyagin Well, that's how it happened historically. It is difficult to discuss this topic now. Probably, there were some moments that defined life in such a way.

A. Ermolin- Surely, there is civil aviation, which serves these areas. I'm trying to think, to think.

M. Zvyagin- I'm not going to discuss this topic now. In addition, civil aviation, which is trained by Ulyanovsk schools in this case, right? They give them the military profession of navigator too. That is, any pilot of civil aviation, he also has a diploma of a navigator.

A. Ermolin- And what is your farm like in terms of cuisine? Because we have here one question from our regular listener under the pseudonym ... Or maybe not the pseudonym Ruprecht. It's just that he constantly writes: "It's still not clear what kind of position this is - the main navigator of the country." Here, explain to the listener what the main navigator of the country is?

M. Zvyagin- Well, firstly, not the chief navigator of the country, but the chief navigator of the Air Force. I have already talked about what the navigation service does. For military aviation, this profession is in demand, in fact, by the essence of military aviation, as I emphasized, right? In order to carry out the event of all this ... All these events, which the navigation service is engaged in, a structure has been created. It is a hierarchical structure, from top to bottom there are navigators everywhere.

A. Ermolin- Mikhail Ivanovich, I have to interrupt you. I think that Mr. Ruprecht can read the answer to this question on your site. We have 15 seconds before going off the air, you have a good opportunity to congratulate your colleagues on the recent holiday.

M. Zvyagin- Yes, Dear friends, let me first of all congratulate our veterans on the navigation service day on the eve of the centenary, wish everyone good health, all veterans of the navigation service, those who gave many years of their lives to this wonderful profession. Well, and all active navigators.

A. Ermolin- "Echo of Moscow" joins these congratulations.

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Artist Mikhail Zvyagin: “I have been drawing all my life, even during the Leningrad blockade”

Artist, sculptor and collector Mikhail Zvyagin in his apartment in Brooklyn. June 7, 2012. Photo © site

Interview sponsor - Oleg

Mikhail Zvyagin in the Encyclopedia of Russian America. Michael, we have 15 minutes - and your whole life. But life from the beginning, from the day of birth, place of birth, year of birth and up to today. And there already - God forbid health and up to 120 years. So let's start from day one.
Born in 1931, on June 7th, in St. Petersburg.

June 7th? Congratulations on your birthday. We have a video recording - June 7th!
There were us in the family ... At first I was alone, then my sister was added. As far back as I can remember, I have always been drawing. Mother paid a lot of attention to my upbringing, both polemical and in art. She bought me all kinds of pencils, paints. I always showed my drawings, there, to neighbors, to someone. In general, my mother was a housewife, my father worked.

Workers?
No, he was an electrical engineer. But that's later. At first, he just served at some factory, I was small, I don’t remember well. He died in St. Petersburg in 1942. He volunteered for the front and returned wounded. He was taken through St. Petersburg, and at that moment he came to our house. I still remember his wounded back and his tunic, pierced by small fragments in the back.

So he died at your house?
No, he died in the hospital. With his mother, he lived for 2.5 minutes: he managed to ask about us, said that he was waiting for her very much, and died in front of her. For me it was very great tragedy. Well, then there was a blockade, we were left to live by chance.

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And how could you survive in the blockade? After all, everyone has their own experience.
You know, it is difficult to talk about the blockade, because only mothers know how the children of the blockade survived. We stayed alive by accident, it was pure coincidence. This is a special, long conversation, it will not fit.

Coincidence, anyone help?
Yes. A friend helped.

Food?
Yes. So we would die. Therefore, when they say that someone survived on 125 g of bread, I do not believe in it.

For 125 g. per day? Did you die?
It was impossible to survive. Then there was an evacuation, after breaking the blockade, through Ladoga lake moved to Vologda region. Well, I didn’t draw there anymore, I went 3 km to school.

You said: “I didn’t draw there.” Did you draw in St. Petersburg? And they painted during the blockade?
Yes. And he painted during the blockade.

And what did you draw?
Pencil. What came to hand.

How old were you then?
Well, the war started in 1941, when I was 10 years old.

Did you start painting before the war?
Yes, as far back as I can remember, I drew. From the age of five, or there ... - all my life. Then they broke out, after the blockade I lost 2 years, I did not study during the blockade, I was overgrown. I got into the 5th grade of general education, I was two years older than all the guys. There were still kids like that. Life was hard, my father died, my mother had no specialty, she went to work in the Snegirev hospital, and I managed to get a job in a vocational school, it was the 11th.
And there, I must say, later in my life I realized that the art of teaching was quite well established. There was art history, drawing, watercolor painting. After graduating from college, I received a diploma of a 5th category watercolor painter, and entered the Central Art School. withstood big competition say there were 27 people in the place. But a year later I was expelled for poor performance in all mathematical subjects, but in art I was doing well.

How about math so far?
Further than four operations of arithmetic does not go. Then, after being expelled, he ended up at a military factory, where he painted some posters. Then they were drafted into the army. I was lucky, I served in Moscow, first in the autobattalion, well, it was a very useful lesson, but since I was drawing, I was then taken to the headquarters of the motor transport department.

What years are these?
It was from 1951 to 1954, I served. And then they were taken to the country's air defense headquarters. And there I served during the day, I was mostly on the maps, and in the evening I drew. There were comic situations. But my stay in Moscow made it possible for me to become very familiar with the Moscow suburbs and with museum estates near Moscow. The Pushkin Museum, the Tretyakov Gallery - soldiers could walk everywhere for free, travel was free, so I was completely ... But my school was not finished. And my friends were already studying at the Academy when I returned from the army. Friends were very good. They helped me as a free student to enter the Academy, and I studied with them in the 5th year. There was a wonderful teacher, who also paid a lot of attention to me, Boris Sergeevich Ugarov. But then he was the last president of the Academy of Arts in Soviet period. I could say a lot of warm things about him. He somehow treated me very warmly and simply. I entered the Union to study arts and crafts, I have higher education there is no artistic, I was accepted, as they say, by talent. But in the end, I only took up painting. I have bought works. Fate, I think, has developed very well.

And what does “purchased work” mean at that time? Sold to private collectors?
No no. Purchased by the Ministry of Culture, purchased by the Art Fund ...

And then these works were distributed to museums?
Yes, I have… I know five museums where my works are stored: in Smolensk, in Tula, in Omsk, in Voronezh, somewhere in Moscow, in general - five or six…

Were there private collectors at that time?

You know there were. I was familiar with many of them. My acquaintance with collectors mainly, oddly enough, extended to different incarnations. I was interested in antiquity, for some period I collected old Russian icons, always on wood, without silver. Collected drawings. And I was lucky in fate, I was familiar with a number of very serious collectors. One of them taught and was a great connoisseur of art. For the first time, I saw real big names with him, for example, Chagall was not exhibited in any museum, but he had “Blue Lovers”, a famous canvas. I first got acquainted with the works of Filonov with him, I first saw Larionov with him, I saw with him the graphics of the 16th century, Italian, German magnificent.

All this, of course, was in his apartment.
Moreover, a small apartment in which he owned one room. Here, he collected the icon too. He also introduced me to a very famous restorer from the Russian Museum at that time, Ivan Vasilyevich Pertsev, whose advice I used and which benefited me. Because there are many such subtleties in collecting icons that ordinary people don't know. He passed it on to me by word of mouth. So they were very interesting people but, you know, it's gone. There was a very wide circle of collectors, they collected everything: they collected fans, collected furniture, and there were people who collected carved furniture, either only mahogany, or only Karelian birch. The people were very interesting. There were people who collected graphics, there were people who collected the works of the Union of Russian Artists, others collected the "World of Art", others - only Art Nouveau, four - the Wanderers. There were exchanges, on the phones then, we talked, we came. Sometimes I came across some thing, I knew who might be interested in it and I knew what subject this person would interest me. Phoned. I remember there was a very interesting Khanamir collector, he was a lawyer, and he had an amazing collection. He once opened a mahogany bureau, he collected paintings only on boards, boards stood like books in every corner. In general, the meeting was big, very big.

What did you collect?
You know, at that time I was collecting icons. Well, my meeting was small, but good enough. Collected drawings. I'm still interested in drawings. I don't have big names, but I've always been interested in the hand.

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A few words about African art.
You know, I first came into contact with African art in America, oddly enough.

When did you arrive here?
I came 20-22 years ago for the first time.

How is the guest?
Yes, by chance on a guest, then I lived here for 3 years, and they gave me a green card as an artist. I did not apply for any immigration, they gave me a green card as an artist, and I went to Russia too ...

But we spoke with you, just before this meeting, because there is no African art in any collection in Russia.
No. And now no.

Why are you interested in this?
That is why I was interested. When I encountered African art at the Met, I regretted not being familiar with it before. Because I think that my creative way development could have been very different.

African art in the collection - what does it consist of? Paintings, some decorative...
African art is primarily a mask.

What shook at the end of the 19th century European artists, hence the same Modeliani, etc.
If there were no Africa, there would be no Modeliani, there would be no Picasso. That is, they might have been, but in some other capacity.

Will you present your collection to Russia?
You know, to give... I gave it after the exhibition, which was in the Pushkin Museum. I gave, 80 things we gave with my son.

Pushkin Museum?
Pushkin Museum. There was supposed to open a department of African art, and I decided to donate the work. But for now, as they say, these are just my intentions.

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Artist Mikhail Zvyagin: “I have been drawing all my life, even during the Leningrad blockade”

"As I remember myself, I always drew. Mother paid a lot of attention to my upbringing, both polemical and in art. She bought me all sorts of pencils, paints, and showed my drawings to neighbors ..."
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